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Originally Posted by puzzlegirl

Um- this isn't what I was discussing at all. Stick to one topic, please.
I was saying that humans have need of religion and art (for example) that separates us from animals. But in stating that we have morals you automatically assumed religion.
I have read your threads fully (in other topics as well) where you try to explain your stance on religion (against it). But that really isn't the topic we're discussing. So I totally lost you after this point.

This was your exact quote from previously:

Are we satisfied with being animals or being what we WANT to be- which is HUMAN- by simply being emotional and empathetic? That is why we have religion, art and everything else that goes with higher thinking.

Aren't you implying that because we have religion, we are not like other animals? Ie, religion determines our morals? If i read you wrong, I apologize.. but it sure does sound that way...

In fact, it's been proven that even animals have their own little 'cults'... or 'traditions'...

You are again drawing the line between humans and animals.. to me, there's just shades in 'brain power'. A lot of animals such as some birds, monkeys, dolphines, etc have the brain power of a 3-4 year old child, can emphatize, can recognize self.. etc..

Any science major will tell you that nothing is fact, only theory.

Agreed... I have always said that... There are no truths.. that's why Religion that offers the ultimate truth is complete bogus!! Science offers usable truths.. and we approach to greater and greater truths from observations and experiments and from our constant questioning.... not from faith..

Fact is a defined english term used for scientifically proven observations... it may not be exactly the 'truth'... there's a difference.. You can say things like 'It's a fact that most birds can fly'... is that the whole truth? Maybe.. maybe not.... but when observed, most birds do fly..

It's a fact that the speed of light is 300,000 km/sec.. is that the truth? Not exactly because we can measure it more accurately.... but it suffice to say it's a fact regardless when you are observing it at a certian level of certainty.. or, you can say that it's a fact that there are more whites than blacks in the USA... in this case, it's the truth as well..

If you want to quibble over symantics, it won't advance our debate, and it'll only deteriote into pettiness... we use language as common usage.. do I have to qualify every sentence i say with 'in general, or mostly, or usually, etc?' or do I just say 'people are this way and that way'?... If you want to be more accurate in your language, try writing like lawyers... each sentence is hardly understandable... and even that is not 100% accurate.. you need to go directly to mathematics and use symbols to

Rape is one of the only ways for the omega male to get ahead and pass on their genes. And in a human's case it gives them self-worth and a feeling of power? I dunno.

I'll be honest and say outright that I haven't read enough about 'rape as the only means to pass on their genes', but from all my readings and knowledge, I would wager that this is false.

For example, males of all kinds of animals spends a lot of time attracting females without rape such as birds building the biggest, nicest nests.. they don't resort to rape... men do the same.. they used to get meals back to the cave, grows big and protective, etc.. today they get rich and sends flowers, etc...

Anyways, I won't give too much credence to one book.. i'll have to look this up, but my gut feeling is that since i can give so much examples that men do not need to resort to rape that that in itself proves the theory wrong.. on the other hand, males tend to fight each other for the right to females.. such as lions... only one alpha male gets to mate.. this is the same with a lot of mammals... the males fight among themselves to determine which is the alpha male, then the rest do not get to have sex at all.. they may do it behind the alpha male's back, but in general the alpha male gets it all.. the whole harem.. he does not need to resort to rape..

Especially in most animals, when a female is in heat, she "WANTS' sex... and that attracts the males..

Also, Dr. Tatiana's book is more of humor than pure science.. perhaps she knows a little bit about science, writes a humorous book based on quasy science... anyways. without reading the whole book, I would withhold judgement.. but I am pretty sure it's not true...

Of course I would never say that it's in human nature to kill. We are the only species that kills each other without purpose and that makes our species an anomaly.

Again false statement... there are plenty of species that kills without a purpose.. including chimpanzees.. I just saw it on the discovery channel.. chimpanzees can emphatize (ie, they understand 'self' and they understand 'pain' on others, and they would inflict pain on purpose and murder on purpose just like humans).

A lot of previous science that wants to put humans far above humans tend to say that 'only humans do this, only humans do that, only humans are emphatatic, etc.. ' but more and more so today we find that there are animals that are similar to us..

My point I want to reiterate is that it doesn't matter what is "in our nature" to do- it's no excuse. It only matters what we want to decide for ourselves- whether we want to be animals, or more than that. Maybe that will make us genetic freaks. Whatever...

Don't get angry at me.. I am only the messenger.. And yes, we are just animals.. no more.. some of the things we really can't control....

Most people don't realize it.. but the drive for sex could be more potent than drug addiction... the chemicals are just drugs that flows in our body.. drugs are also released in women's body when she has sex and that makes her feel 'deeply in love'.. this same oxytoxin hormone is also released in men.. it makes us feel in love..

We are automatons for all the 'will power' we have.. sure, we can decide to be monks and not have sex at all.. but that's just totally unnatural.. and evne monks cheat.. and that's a fact.. even priests molest young children.. so, even something like religion that promises eternal hell fire would can't stop nature.. what do you think can??

You spray some hormones at a piece of rock and an insect would rut it to death.. it can't help it.. it just follows the chemical instructions.. yes, humans can intelectualize, but we are also bound by chemicals instructions.. and all i am saying is the men are such strong testosterone that even their mind over matter tricks can't help them (most of them, let me qualify before you accuse me of generalizing, again).

Overall- we actually agree on plenty of points but you go on some far-off tangents, man.

No tangents, just whacky truths.. not the truths you want to hear....

If you like I can also say, 'Yes, men are exactly like women, we only have sex for love, we will never cheat and those that cheat are just jerks'. Is that the truth you want to hear?

Oh, btw: yes, women cheats as well.. perhaps as much as 50% according to most scientific polls..... and this usually occurs a couple days before ovulation when her testosterone is at the highest level (even at those levels, it's still like 10s of times lower than a man's).

Here's a challenge.. I challenge you to inject yourself with testosterone and get it up to a men's level for 30 days and then see if you can help youself...