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Originally Posted by suzushii

Let me clear some ideas for you:
hardwiring - these are insticts you can't argue against - like hunger, and thrist, and the sucking reflex in infants. We have them, and these are very much in common with other animals. Yes, we are animals.

I add sexual urges as instincts. This is were you disagree with me but you present no hard evidence. The argument of nature vs nurture is an ongoing battle and over the last decade nature seems to be taking the lead, but 20-30 years ago, we thought that 80% of who we are were nurture related. Now with more research we are finding out that more and more nature plays a harder role to simply dismiss... even 'criminals' may have a criminal gene..

softwiring - while we are indeed animals, we are not like most animals at all. A great part of our selves is shaped by culture and enviroment. While most animals are born self-sufficient (baby antilopes can run in 30 min from birth. some birds are entirely alone from day one) we are not like this at all. We, and other primates, give birth to offspring that are completely hopeless years, which require painstaking care for decades. cheating is NOT hardwired, it's a conscious choice!

Agreed. Humans are not like all animals but that does not mean we can easily escare our nature as well. Some Animals have culture too. And they learn to use tools, knows self, knows empathy.

Evolutionary speaking, we are monogamous, and slightly polygynous. That means, we do not mate for life with one person, but are more likely to be serially monogamous (one relationship after another) and with a small degree of cheating. This is for both genders. Studies done show that women cheat almost as much as men, but never more then 30%.

I agree with this mostly but not the 'cheating stats' you put out. In fact, please show where you found that men and women cheat almost the same and at about 30%. Perhaps you're the one generalizing??

But what does this mean, to a modern human, his evolutionary tendencies? Well, almost nothing. These are not urges like thirst and hunger, that one seldom can control. A human is fully equiped with his higher brain to make rational decisions towards one way or another.

SO, if it's so simple to control as you put it, why is it not showing in the real world? Why are women complaining everywhere about their cheating husbands?? Why not just shut up about it? Why are we even having this argument and why are women so pissed about it? If men and women cheat exactly the same, then why are women blaming men all the time? Where's teh moral high ground? The next time a woman goes up in oprah and complains about her cheating husband, make sure you all boo her to death because women does it the same.

Your arguments are infested with a bias and sybjectivity. Basically, you defend the argument simply from the cheating male's pov, and your subjectivity shows in trying to defend the idea of "normalcy of cheating". You minimise to the point of omitting what a cheated-on spouse feels like, and the bad effects of cheating. You make it sound like cheating happens in a vacuum.

I find it funny how you would come out, read a few thread and arrive at this example. How many times have I specifically say how bad women feel when they are cheated upon and that men do try very hard not to cheat on the spouse they love. How is saying that a lot of men, even trying very hard, finds that they do sway, arguing in a vacuum when this is fact we see everyday of our lives?

Many people don't feel monogamous, and the most of this group are men.

First you say men and women are monogamous and they cheat the same amount, now you say that men are less likely to want monogamy... which is which?

However, there are plenty of women who also don't desire monogamous relationships, or would not mind an open relationship, even on the guy's part. That's why, if you want an open relationship, date and marry a person like you. Don't date a monogamous person, and cheat on them. That's unfair.

I totally agree with the ideals here. If only men and women can be totally loyal to each other. I too want such a relationship. The difference between our argument is that you are living in a fantasy world and I am living in a real one. 'The plenty of women doesn't want a monogamous relationship' is bunk. Perhaps a very tiny percentage wants that.. but that's it.. In fact, I think most men wants a monogamous relationship....

People marry because they share the same values, and have the same goals. Too many men marry despite not feeling love for their spouses, or supressing their own values and desires, and then express them on the side, while trying to hide them. This is DISASTRUOUS. And unforgivable.

You would think this of course... How many percentage of our divorce rate now? 50%? 60%? and why?? Because people can control who they marry and they can choose so wisely right? And because men who are chosen by wise women won't cheat on them right?